Saturday, August 18, 2007

Islam's story of Christ

Guardian Unlimited reported There was no manger,

but they say Jesus spoke as a baby
Christ is not the Messiah, and the crucifixion never happened. A forthcoming ITV documentary will portray Jesus as Muslims see him. With the Koran as a main source and drawing on interviews with scholars and historians, the Muslim Jesus explores how Islam honours Christ as a prophet but not as the son of God. According to the Koran the crucifixion was a divine illusion. Instead of dying on the cross, Jesus was rescued by angels and raised to heaven. The one-hour special, commissioned and narrated by Melvyn Bragg, is thought to be the first time the subject has been dealt with on British television. Lord Bragg said: "I was fascinated by the idea ... Jesus was such a prominent figure in Islam but most people don't know that."
I have no objection to this story being aired, but I would follow it with one showing the Qur'an told people to also read the Bible and Torah (10:94 and 16:43), and the Qur'an confirmed the validity of the Bible ( 5:46, 2:40, 2:41, 12:111, 4:47, 6:92, 3:3, 35:31, 2:91, 3:113, 2:121, 2:41, 3:81), the Qur'an confirmed Jesus performed miracles ( 5:110, 3:48, 3:49) which Muhammad did not do and then show the story of Jesus from the Christian perspective.

24 comments:

Esav Benyamin said...

Thanks, Don. I came over here from Meryl Yourish, following your comment.

If Muslims would read the whole Quran instead of picking and choosing the most bloodcurdling passages, they would still be obnoxious, I believe, but they might not be quite the psychos they appear today.

Peace!

Ed Hausman
(Esav Benyamin)

Don Singleton said...

You are right

Agathocles said...

In other words: Muslims are "obnoxious" by nature. If you are born and raised a muslim, you are automatically "obnoxious".

Wonder were I´ve heard this type of statements before... Was it perhaps all the bantering of the jews going on in the 1930´s... Yes I think so, they, too, were considered "obnoxious" just because they were jewish. Also, just as everybody knows today that every muslim is a terrorist, everyone knew back then that every jew was a greedy bastard ready to sell his or her own mother for a penny. And just as every muslim naturally share the collective guilt for every ill deed committed or attributed to either Muhammed or any one of his followers, so too, naturally, did every jew share the guilt of the jews calling for Barabbas release and letting Jesus Christ be crucified.

Let the all out war for religious supremacy BEGIN!

Don Singleton said...

In other words: Muslims are "obnoxious" by nature.

No, esav may disagree with me, but I believe it is by training.

You have some pretty bad religious leaders who can convince other people to commit suicide, promising them benefits in the afterlife, that the religious leaders know they will not get (even seen an Imam strap on a suicide vest and blow himself up)?

Agathocles said...

So why you never say a single word about the secular hindu leaders of The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) - no single group has carried out more suicide bombings than them - or the religious leaders of the Sikhs or the catholics of the IRA or the christian basques of ETA or CIA agents firing into crowds of civilians during "Operation Ajax" in Iran 1953, to blame it on Mossadeq, or the Reagan administration channeling support to the Contras in Nicaragua whose main tactic was to scare the population into submission by killing and maiming innocent civilians or the Lord´s Resistance Army of Uganda who cut peoples ears, noses, hands and genitals off, preferably in front of their relatives, to "convince" them that their idea of a state founded on the ten commandments is a good one and kidnap countless children to use as soldiers or sex-slaves, or the hutus of Rwanda who justified their unjustifiable genocide by quoting the bible, just as Osama justifies his unjustifiable terror by quoting the quran.

I know you explain every atrocity carried out by muslims with one word and one word only - ISLAM, but I´d like to hear your explanation for all these other barbaric attacks on innocent civilians. Why do they happen? Why do non-muslims act this way?

Don Singleton said...

So why you never say a single word about the secular hindu leaders of The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) - no single group has carried out more suicide bombings than them - or the religious leaders of the Sikhs or the catholics of the IRA or the christian basques of ETA or CIA agents firing into crowds of civilians during "Operation Ajax" in Iran 1953

None of them have flown planes into buildings, and none of the others you name have done any bombing recently, and when they did it was just against one group that they felt had agrieved them. The Jihadis have attacked the US, Britain, France, Spain, Indonesia, Jordan, and many other countries.

Agathocles said...

You are some piece of work, you know that, Don? "None of them have flown planes into buildings[...]"(!)

Jeez, that must mean that if the 1993 World trade center bombing had succeeded in toppling the towers, even if there had been 6000 casualties in the incident, it would, morally, from your point of view, not have been an act as despicable and evil as the attacks of september 11, because they wouldn´t have been flying airplanes into buildings. You gotta love that logic...

"[...]none of the others you name have done any bombing recently"

So you, who refer to the prophet Muhammed marrying young girls 600 c.e. as proof of the decadence of Islam, thinks that the Rwandan genocide, committed in 1994, has no relevance anymore because it was another era, is that it? The LTTE still bombs, what about them? Explain why they blow themselves up in crowds of innocent people - they´re not muslims, so why, then?

"[...]and when they did it was just against one group that they felt had agrieved them. The Jihadis have attacked the US, Britain, France, Spain, Indonesia, Jordan, and many other countries."

As you yourself pointed out many times "the Jihadis", first and foremost al-Qaida, have a program. The first phase of that program is ending western military presence in the muslim world, ousting what they see as corrupt and decadent regimes (they´re mostly right in these charges) and install islamic regimes practicing sharia law. Therefore they attack nations with a military presence in the muslim world and they attack regimes in the muslim world they see as un-islamic and/or corrupt. In the longer perspective, if they could have it their way, they´d probably like to make the whole world a sunnimuslim caliphate and convert everyone to the sunni/wahhabi school of islam, but that is about as likely as Ralph Nader becoming president of the US in the next election. Now because many western countries support and prop up regimes that ARE really corrupt and cruel, it´s easier than it need be for these jihadis to get people to listen to them. Joseph Goebbels of the german nazis said that disinformation should always contain 80% truth. If the jihadis can point to the FACT that the US is propping up the royal dictatorship of Saudi Arabia, an extremely corrupt and brutal regime, and the most extremely islamist state since the Taliban fell, then there´ll be much easier for them to convince people that anything else they say is true, like that the only solution to the problem is holy terror against the US and/or against the house of Saud.

Now let´s take a look at the Lord´s Resistance Army in Uganda. They´re still actively fighting. They´re led by a madman named Joseph Kony who claims to be a spiritual medium and that it is his mission to found a state based on the ten commandments of the bible. They´ve killed 20000 civilians, maimed countless and kidnapped 25-30000 children over the last twenty years. Now Kony isn´t directing the violence against "one group that they felt had agrieved them" he´s directing it against all the civilian population, from different ethnic groups, that he suspects support the ugandian government in any way, just like Osama is directing his terror against any and all americans because the american people tolerate their own government. If Kony were able to take power in Uganda and if he would be able to start a military build-up, there would be (to paraphrase Dick Cheney) "no doubt, that he would amass any weapons he could to use against other countries in order to impose his beliefs on them by force."

But in your world, this;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2982818.stm

is nothing to be concerned with, and since the scope of their power is not enough to reach outside Uganda (yet), the fact that they´ve killed more civilians than al-Qaida has, not even counting all the ones they maimed, all the children abducted, boys to be soldiers, girls to be sex-slaves, raped by groups of men every night, not even taking to account the traumas of children being forced to kill their own parents, it all doesn´t matter to you, does it, because they haven´t "flown planes into buildings", they haven´t "done any bombing recently", and I guess most importantly, they´re not muslims, and hence they can´t reinforce your little bigotted black and white world-view. Had they been muslims this blog would be overflowing with posts about this "forgotten conflict".


You call yourself christian and still you spread nothing but hatred and bigotry towards muslims. This is from the BBC article about Uganda linked above:

"Despite the terror inflicted by the LRA, civilians are largely ready to forgive in order to see the back of the 17-year-old conflict.

As Donald Lagonya studies for his A-level exams under a street light, he tells me: "If they come back home and stay together as brothers and sisters, even now I am ready to receive them."

"Mistakes are human and the rebels should not think they will be hated."


Who walks the path of Jesus Christ, the one who begged forgiveness for his killers while hanging on the cross, you, or this guy?

Agathocles said...

Why isn´t my last reply showing up on the original post? Did I hit too close to home?

Agathocles said...

There it is!

Don Singleton said...

Jeez, that must mean that if the 1993 World trade center bombing had succeeded in toppling the towers, even if there had been 6000 casualties in the incident, it would, morally, from your point of view, not have been an act as despicable and evil as the attacks of september 11, because they wouldn´t have been flying airplanes into buildings. You gotta love that logic...

I did not say that. But it was an unprovoked attack on innocent civilians.

the Rwandan genocide, committed in 1994, has no relevance anymore because it was another era, is that it

We did not cause the Rwandan genocide, nor are we killing innocent Christians and pagans in Darfur, so that Islamists from other countries can steal their lands.

The LTTE still bombs, what about them?

I have not heard much about the Tamil Tigers, but in any event theirs is a localized conflict seeking independence, not attacks in US, Britain, France, Spain, Indonesia, Jordan, and many other countries seeking worldwide domination.

ousting what they see as corrupt and decadent regimes and install islamic regimes practicing sharia law.

And as you indicate they want to oust the Saudi government, which already has sharia law, and replace it with one where they control the clerics.

You call yourself christian and still you spread nothing but hatred and bigotry towards muslims.

Not true. I praise the efforts of Moderate Muslims who are willing to stand up to the Islamists, and I have not seen any Islamists who are witlling to "come back home and stay together as brothers and sisters" as Donald Lagonya said.

The Qur'an told people to also read the Bible and Torah (10:94, 16:43, 5:44, 2:213, 29:46, 6:4390) yet the Islamists seek to kill those fellow People of the Book.

Agathocles said...

You wrote (quoting me in the beginning):

"So why you never say a single word about the secular hindu leaders of The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) - no single group has carried out more suicide bombings than them - or the religious leaders of the Sikhs or the catholics of the IRA or the christian basques of ETA or CIA agents firing into crowds of civilians during "Operation Ajax" in Iran 1953

None of them have flown planes into buildings, and none of the others you name have [...a.s.f.]"


In other words, the acts of the LTTE or the Sikhs or the IRA, blowing up crowds of innocent civilians, and the deliberate machinegunning of innocent civilians by CIA agents in Iran, are not as serious crimes as the crimes of muslims, because none of these groups have "flown planes into buildings". It follows then, that the toppling of the WTC would not have been as serious if it had not been carried out by flying airplanes into the buildings. IF there´s ANY consistency in anything you write, that is.

But it was an unprovoked attack on innocent civilians.

Unprovoked? In what way did the Iranian civilians provoke the CIA? Oh, that´s right, they exercised their right to vote, and voted for the "wrong" guy, Mossadeq. That, of course, totally excuse machinegunning them down in the streets (blaming it on Mossadeq to be able to oust him). Well, I for one can NOT imagine why Iran is so distrustful of the US...

"We did not cause the Rwandan genocide, nor are we killing innocent Christians and pagans in Darfur, so that Islamists from other countries can steal their lands."

Maybe you don´t know this, but the International of Christian democratic parties, the umbrella organisation for Christian democrats worldwide, including the biggest conservative parties in most European countries, did in fact support the Hutus and the Interanhamwe militia economically and politically, all the way to the absolute end of the genocide. There´s a documentary about it called "In God´s name", and in it, the former chairman of this organisation admits and defend the fact that they did this. They tried to stop the international community from interfering, because the Hutus wanted to create a christian state founded on biblical principles! How about that? That´s the way the moderate christians stood up, not against, but FOR christian extremists who killed over 900 000 tutsis and moderate hutus in cold blood, far more innocent lives taken in just three months than al-Qaida has been guilty of in 15 years! And you say islam is the only evil worthy of any attention in the world.

I have not heard much about the Tamil Tigers, but in any event theirs is a localized conflict seeking independence, not attacks in US, Britain, France, Spain, Indonesia, Jordan, and many other countries seeking worldwide domination.

Oh, okay, so then the al-Qaida bombings are worthy of condemnations, but palestinian suicide bombers are excused - I mean, theirs is a localized conflict seeking independence, not attacks in US, Britain, France, Spain, Indonesia, Jordan, and many other countries seeking worldwide domination.

And as you indicate they want to oust the Saudi government, which already has sharia law, and replace it with one where they control the clerics.

Yes, it would truly be "out of the fire and into the frying pan" if groups like al-Qaida were to take power in Saudi Arabia. Too bad NO-ONE is supporting any other opposition groups, so the islamists are the only ones that the dissatisfied masses can turn to.

I praise the efforts of Moderate Muslims who are willing to stand up to the Islamists

Yet at every opportunity you ascribe ill deeds done by individual followers of islam to muslims in general, while you never attribute ill deeds carried by christians or others to anything but the individual who carried out the deed him/herself.

Don Singleton said...

I do not defend the acts of the acts of the LTTE or the Sikhs or the IRA, but they are acts by people who want independence from a government, and are just directed at that government. The attacks on the US, UK, France, Jordan, Indonesia, etc have nothing to do with a part of the country that wants independence.

In what way did the Iranian civilians provoke the CIA?

I don't know what you are talking about. The Iranian government has been supplying groups in Iraq with weapons to kill Americans with, but that is not the Iranian citizens.

Hutus and Tutsis are in Rwanda, Burundi, and Zaire. What they did to each other is terrible, but it has nothing to do with he killing innocent Christians and pagans in Darfur, so that Islamists from other countries can steal their lands.

so then the al-Qaida bombings are worthy of condemnations, but palestinian suicide bombers are excused

Both are to be condemned. Particularly the Palestinians that wanted a country of their own; Israel pulled out (of Gaza) and gave them one, and they continued firing rockets to try to kill Jews, and also began killing each other.

Yet at every opportunity you ascribe ill deeds done by individual followers of islam to muslims in general, while you never attribute ill deeds carried by christians or others to anything but the individual who carried out the deed him/herself.

I have not seen any recent examples where Christians do evil claiming the Bible told them to do it; yet I frequently see Muslims doing evil saying the Qur'an requires it.

Agathocles said...

Do you even read my posts?

First of all: Many muslim attacks that you point to as examples of the "evils of islam" are parts of local independence struggles, just as the LTTE´s suicide-bombings. For example, the palestinian suicide bombings.

Second, Iran: Google "operation Ajax" and/or Mohammed Mossadeq.

Third, you write: "Hutus and Tutsis are in Rwanda, Burundi, and Zaire. What they did to each other is terrible, but it has nothing to do with he killing innocent Christians and pagans in Darfur, so that Islamists from other countries can steal their lands."

Well, you harschly criticise muslims for not condemning the radical islamists and their actions, you attack Iran and Syria for giving political and economic support to Hezbollah and other islamic militants - but when the christian democratic parties´ international, including parties in government positions in large parts of western Europe (Germany for example) economically and politically backs the hutu extremists during the whole of the genocide in Rwanda that cost over 800 000 peoples their lives, all in order to create a "christian" state with laws based on the bible - then that means NOTHING to you, you do NOT say "look how these christians are acting, it´s shameful", even though they did kill countless more people in a month than al-Qaeda has done in a decade! And we´re not talking about lack of condemnations from the christian community in Europe - we´re talking about active support!

"Both are to be condemned."

Then why not the LTTE?

I have not seen any recent examples where Christians do evil claiming the Bible told them to do it; yet I frequently see Muslims doing evil saying the Qur'an requires it.

You don´t read my posts, do you?

RWANDA HAPPENED IN 1994, STILL UNMATCHED BY ANY MUSLIM ATROCITY SINCE THE TURKISH GENOCIDE OF 1915!

UGANDA - THE TERROR AGAINST THE CIVILIAN POPULATION CONTINUES TO THIS DAY - ALL IN THE NAME OF CREATING A CHRISTIAN STATE!

Don Singleton said...

Do you even read my posts?

Yes, and I even respond to some of the points you raise. And I allow them to remain.

First of all: Many muslim attacks that you point to as examples of the "evils of islam" are parts of local independence struggles, just as the LTTE´s suicide-bombings. For example, the palestinian suicide bombings.

Israel pulled out of Gaza, to see if these people really wanted independence. They proved that was not their objective with continued rocket attacks, and they just killed each other when they could not reach the hated Joozzz.

you do NOT say "look how these christians are acting, it's shameful

Hutus and Tutsi killed each other just as Sunnis and Shias kill each other.

The Roman Catholic Church and Belgian colonial authorities considered the Hutus and Tutsis different ethnic races based on physical differences and patterns of migration. That was stupid, and it was certainly not based on anything Christ said.

In 1943, Mwami Mutari III became the first Tutsi monarch to convert to Catholicism. But Hutu also had advocates in the Catholic Church. But either group killing the other was not a Christian concept.

According to the 2002 National Census, Christians of all denominations made up 85.1% of Uganda's population. But Idi Amin was not practicing Christian principles, nor is Yoweri Museveni

Agathocles said...

"Yes, and I even respond to some of the points you raise. And I allow them to remain."

Well, thank you! Do you mean one shouldn´t take for granted that you´d allow differing opinions to remain?

"Israel pulled out of Gaza, to see if these people really wanted independence.[...]"

You usually say Israel can´t give up the entire West bank, because it wouldn´t be a viable state. Do you know the size of the Gaza strip? It´s smaller than the Isle of Wight! And even though Israel withdrew its troops they controlled every way in and out of Gaza (except some illegally built tunnels to Egypt). That´s a viable independent state, but Israel without large parts of the West bank is not?

What you write about Rwanda have no bearing whatsoever on what I wrote. The Interahamwe justified the genocide with quotes from the bible, just as Osama justifies his terrorist acts with quotes from the Quran, the christian democratic parties´international, an umbrella organisation for christian democratic parties from all over the world, including the governing parties of Germany and other prominent western European countries, supported the hutus and their Interahamwe militia, politically and economically, just like Iran support Hezbollah or Afghanistan under the Taliban supported al-Qaeda. This was not in the forties, it was 1994.

"According to the 2002 National Census, Christians of all denominations made up 85.1% of Uganda's population. But Idi Amin was not practicing Christian principles, nor is Yoweri Museveni"

Joseph Kony and his Lord´s Resistance Army are the ones terrorizing the population. They do so in order to create in Uganda a state based on their perception of the laws of the bible, and just as in the case of the Taliban, who tried to create a state based on their perception of the laws of the Quran, the civilian population pay the price. Their is no difference in their madness and cruelty just because one follows the Quran and the other the bible - the end result is suffering because of their interpretations of the scriptures and their demand that their truths must be accepted as universal by everyone, not because of the scriptures or beliefs themselves. Islam isn´t more "inherently evil" than christianity.

Don Singleton said...

Do you mean one shouldn't take for granted that you'd allow differing opinions to remain?

It is my blog. I delete obscene comments, extremely long rants that do not relate to the subject of th post, and spam. Which means I must read them to determine what do do. I allow yours to remain. Which is more than I have had done to me with questions/comments posted on Muslim blogs.

You usually say Israel can't give up the entire West bank, because it wouldn't be a viable state.

I don't recall saying that, but the Gaza indication shows that it would at least not be a peaceful neighbor.

And even though Israel withdrew its troops they controlled every way in and out of Gaza (except some illegally built tunnels to Egypt).

Had Gaza been a peaceful neighbor I suspect they would have relaxed the control they have over access.

The Interahamwe justified the genocide with quotes from the bible

What quotes?

Joseph Kony and his Lord's Resistance Army are the ones terrorizing the population. They do so in order to create in Uganda a state based on their perception of the laws of the bible

Never heard of him. The country is 85.1% Christian. What does Kony demand?

Agathocles said...

It is my blog. I delete obscene comments, extremely long rants that do not relate to the subject of th post, and spam.

Fair enough.

I don't recall saying that, but the Gaza indication shows that it would at least not be a peaceful neighbor.

Actually, what you wrote was "How about this. Palestine was never a country, and Jordan ruled the land west of the Jordan the Palestinians want for their country. Let them move east of the Jordan and settle land there, in penalty for Jordan declaring war on Israel, and let Egypt settle the people from its former property in Gaza somewhere in Egypt, and let Israel have its own country with defensible borders."

Had Gaza been a peaceful neighbor I suspect they would have relaxed the control they have over access.

If the Hungarian and Czech people had been quite and listless subjects to Soviet supremacy, I guess the Soviet union would have relaxed the control they had over access too.

What quotes?

I don´t know which exact quotes, I don´t keep track of the different religious quotes used by fanatics of one faith or the other to justify their own desire for power. That´s a waste of time, all I need to know is that that´s the way religious scriptures are used - to control the believers who are really only searching for some sense and meaning in life on this small planet in the deep cold space. Not all believers let themselves be controlled by the religious elite (who are entangled with the political and economic elite to make sure society doesn´t change very much - ever) though, there are brave independent believers (of all the great faiths) who refuse to be leashed by those who wants to impose the soft tyranny of making people believe they want things they don´t really want, things they would never have cared for or supported if someone hadn´t whispered it in their ear and assured them that God/Allah/Shiva/Buddah/Odin/Amon/Zeus thinks it´s the right thing to do. Faith as a tool for power. God (whichever one) has nothing to do with it, power has everything to do with it, clearly shown in the case of Uganda/Sudan, where the theocratic christian Lord´s resistance army is allied with the radical muslim government of Sudan!

But here is an article about Rwanda and islam you might like to read, it´s from the Washington Post;

Islam Attracting Many Survivors of Rwanda Genocide

As usual, they forget to mention the international christian political community´s complicity, though, trying to make it out as if it where only some misled Rwandan priests who backed the genocide...

Never heard of him. The country is 85.1% Christian. What does Kony demand?

Ok, so you have no idea what´s been going on in Uganda the last 20 years, well maybe that´s not so strange - for some reason we hear a lot from Darfur, where arabs/muslims attack africans/christians, but hardly a word from Congo, where the UN estimates that 3 million to 4 million Congolese have been killed, compared with the estimated 200,000 civilian deaths in Darfur. Victims have been targeted because of their ethnicity and entire ethnic groups destroyed - but the outside world has turned its back, doing little to save people from the wrath of the various government and rebel militias. We hear a lot of a few bombings by islamic extremists in Saudi Arabia or Egypt, but hardly a word from the "christian terror" carried out by Kony and his group for twenty years with twenty thousand children kidnapped for use as soldiers and sex-slaves and tens of thousands of slaughtered civilians...

Who is Joseph Kony?

...

Agathocles said...

The good christian work for a better Uganda


...

Don Singleton said...

I oppose any effort to establish a theocratic government, of any faith, particularly through violent means

Agathocles said...

I never claimed you supported these acts of terror, I´m just making the point that you as a christian do not wish to be in any way connected to these people - even though you haven´t loudly denounced them on your blog or elsewhere - and in the same way the overwhelming majority of muslims do not wish to be in any way connected to al-Qaeda or similar terrorist groups just because they are muslims.

But you constantly claim that christians bear no responsibility for the terror carried out by other christians, while muslims are collectively guilty of every atrocity carried out by other muslims. It´s called a double standard and is often used by those who can´t really make their own bigotry fit into reality, but still refuse to abandon it.

Don Singleton said...

you haven't loudly denounced them on your blog or elsewhere

I never even heard of these nutcases until you dug up a several year old link about them, and I denounced them then.

the overwhelming majority of muslims do not wish to be in any way connected to al-Qaeda or similar terrorist groups

Then they need to do something about it.

When a radical cleric is encouraging young men to join the Jihad, they should turn the cleric in to the police

When young jihadists encourage other to join them, they should report them

Agathocles said...

"Before the genocide more than 60% of Rwandans were Catholic.

And when the killings started, tens of thousands of Tutsis fled to churches for sanctuary. But they found little protection there.

Churches became sites of slaughter, carried out even at the altar.

On the opposite side of Kigali from Al Aqsa mosque, is the church of Sainte Famille. As dawn mass is celebrated, the sound of hymns carries outside and floats across the waking city.

During the genocide, hundreds of Tutsis crammed inside here trying to escape the horrors unfolding outside. But Hutu militias came repeatedly with lists of those to be killed.

The priest in charge of the church, Father Wenceslas Munyeshyaka, is blamed for colluding with the killers.

Discarding his priest's cassock, witnesses say he took to wearing a flack jacket and carrying a pistol.

"Some members of the Church failed in their mission, they contradicted what they stood for," says Father Antoine Kambanda, director of the charity, Caritas, in Kigali.

He acknowledges that while some priests and nuns risked their lives trying to stop the slaughter, others were implicated in the killings.

"We are sorry for what took place, sorry for the members of the Church that did crimes, sorry for the victims who lost their lives.


"But the Pope says the members who went against their mission are to answer for it. The Church cannot answer for them.""

Agathocles said...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3561365.stm


...

Don Singleton said...

Individuals have done evil things throughout history with religious connections. Satan himself was once an angel. But does Father Wenceslas Munyeshyaka, Father Antoine Kambanda, or any other Christian "leader" quote any verse from the Bible as evil as Surah 9:29, or quote a policy as evil as "Whoever changes his religion, kill him" which is called for in Bukhari, Abu Dawud, and many other Haddith that are not online, including Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, An-Nasai, the Muwatta of Imam Malik, Tayalisi, Ibn Hanbal, Ibn Hibban, the Sunan al-Kubraa, Bayhaqi, Abu Ya'laa, Humaidi, Abd al-Razzaq, and Ibn Abi Shaybah. And do they think that God is so weak that he cannot make up his mind, forcing religious scholars to drum up a doctrine of abrogation (naskh) in which later pronouncements of the Prophet declare null and void his earlier pronouncements): 2:106, 16:101, 13:39, and 17:86.